gmo
Cygnus
Posts: 5
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Post by gmo on Jan 6, 2009 23:07:35 GMT
Greetings!
First off I want to say hello as I have just joined today and so I apologize if I have made a mistake or posted in the wrong place.
I am 19 and from Belfast. I'm really considering buying a telescope and getting into astronomy. I have always been fascinated by the night sky but never really taken it seriously and so I feel its about time I did.
Any-who, I have a couple of questions.
1. Given the fact that I'm a complete novice with telescopes and all the equipment associated with them, could anyone give me a few excellent brand names/ models of telescopes that are best for beginners?
I have done a bit of research and came across two names that have stuck in my head and seem respectable(but what would I know? eh?). The two are Meade and Orion Optics. Of course if I asked either one of them I would get a biased response telling me why theirs are better. This is why I came here to ask and find a neutral answer and hopefully learn something.
I am looking for a telescope that allows me to view the planets clearly and anything else far away and breathtaking the sky has to offer(if this is possible that is *fingers crossed*) and how much money can I expect to pay for it?
2. Is there anything else I should purchase along with it to aid viewing?
3. Where are the best places to go local to Belfast/Northern Ireland to get the best views? I've heard the light from the city can ruin your viewing experience.
So there you go. I would greatly appreciate any help you can give me. I hope to hear from some of you soon.
Graham.
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Post by nemesis on Jan 7, 2009 0:02:29 GMT
Graham....welcome to the NIAAS Forum. Yes, you're in exactly the right place to get your questions answered!
1. Due to the competition, there are very few duff telescopes around, and the only one to avoid is Tasco. Buying one will depend on two things...your budget and what you want to look at. You can get a pretty good scope for £200-300. Do you want to look at a bit of everything...moon, planets, star clusters etc, or are you interested in one particular thing? Your main interest can decide the best type of scope for you.
Planets, Moon and Double Stars-refractor, General viewing-reflector, Clusters and galaxies- Dobsonian.
Planets, as I've said, are best with a refractor, but as you want a bit of everything a 6" reflector might be a good starter. Both names you mention make very good telescopes, as do Celestron and Skywatcher.
2. You normally get everything you need to begin with when you buy a 6"...you'll get a tripod, and a couple of eyepieces and sometimes a Barlow lens to double magnification.
3. If you're in Belfast you need to get out of it. The light pollution is pretty bad. Both Stevie and I live off the Antrim Rd in Belfast, and we usually go to Killylane in Larne, which is OK, and you're very welcome to come with us. I'd actually advise you to do that before you buy anything, because chances are that there will be a few different types of telescope, and you can see which suits best.
I personally use a large Dobsonian, as I love clusters, galaxies and nebulae, and nothing beats a light-bucket for that!
I've PM'd you with my number. Feel free to phone and ask any and all questions you might have.
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Post by stevie on Jan 7, 2009 0:09:09 GMT
Hi Graham, and welcome to the forum. Wow, plenty of questions there. Meade and Orion are two well-known brand names, and both make a wide range of different telescopes in various sizes. Two others in the same category would be Celestron and Skywatcher. Much of the astronomical equipment available these days is made in China, and is sold under any of the four names mentioned. The last ten years, and especially the last five, have seen an enormous growth in the availability of amateur equipment at an affordable price. And that is the key factor, price. You can get a fairly reasonable telescope for £200, or you can pay £20,000 if you really want to. The choice is virtually endless. So the first factor has to be, how much can you spend? As a complete beginner, I would suggest something closer to £200. If you should find that your interest is not long-term, then you won't have lost much, and could sell the equipment on. And if you do eventually upgrade to more expensive equipment, you can still sell it on! We always recommend to beginners that their very first purchase should be a good pair of binoculars, something in the range of 7x50 up to 10x50. The first number (in this case, 7 or 10), is the magnification, and the second number is the field of view. Beware of adverts in newspapers boasting of 6000 times magnification, this is rubbish, not even the Hubble Space Telescope magnifies that much. (In the same vein, never buy a telescope from ebay or similar unless you know what you are doing, there is some real rubbish around. Stick with the four names mentioned above). All amateurs carry binoculars (I've got three pairs) and use them extensively, you'll be amazed how much you can see with them. There is a chemist's shop on the main road into Bangor (Abbey Pharmacy), which has a good selection, at reasonable prices. If you also invest in a good book, like "Turn Left at Orion" and a planisphere, this would be a good start. Start off by learning a few of the constellations and some of the brighter stars, and also a bit about the planets. The telescope, and other equipment, can follow a little bit later. You can always keep an eye open on this website for viewing sessions, with this being the International Year of Astronomy, we are hoping to set up several public viewing sessions, as well as plenty of other sessions for members, weather permitting of course. You will have the opportunity to try out a whole range of different telescopes at these sessions, before making your choice. If you want me to make a recommendation now, I would suggest you read these recent posts from the forum eaas.proboards31.com/index.cgi?board=beginners&action=display&thread=3019eaas.proboards31.com/index.cgi?board=beginners&action=display&thread=2966As for places to observe, our main site is at Killylane reservoir on the Larne - Ballymena road, although we sometimes go to South Down or even up the coast road near Glenarm. Belfast is horrendous for light pollution, and you really need to get at least 20 miles away to get a decent dark sky, especially if you want to find faint objects like galaxies. It is possible to observe planets, star clusters and double stars though. We have a long-term plan to find a private observing site which is accessible to most members. I hope this has been of some help Graham, and I am sure some others will add their thoughts, and anything I have forgotten. Don't be afraid to ask as many questions as you like, that's why we are here. And maybe one of these days, you will be able to pass on your advice and experience to others. Good Luck.
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Post by irishbloke on Jan 7, 2009 8:47:20 GMT
Hi Graham, I'm thinking of selling my scope to help pay for a bigger one. This might be of use to you if cash is an issue. It's this one here: www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=s130pma 5inch reflector. I have a set of eyepeices, that are better than the originals that came with the scope, some filters including this one www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=bneodymium which cuts down some of the light pollution, (but you still need to get a bit out of Dodge!). I also have a web cam (Philips spc900 £48 in PCWorld) that has a 1.25in eyepeice adapter and infrared filter that I have used to take vid clips of the moon and others have managed images of planets (but I never really mastered that). This was my first scope and it's been fun to use to see the sky with. If your interested let me know. Brian
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gmo
Cygnus
Posts: 5
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Post by gmo on Jan 7, 2009 21:29:45 GMT
Hey everyone, thanks for the replies. I really appreciate the advice, recommendations, offers and invites. I didnt expect this much of a response so thanks very much to you all.
I'm still batting the idea around on whether I want one or not. I dont want to make an impulse buy so I want to get everything clear in my head before I make the choice.
Nemesis, I think if anything I would go for a reflector and my maximum budget would be £350 as this is my first scope.
Stevie, you mentioned binoculars. My dad has a pair of 7x50. I am unsure of the make but I know its 7x50. We would take them out when we went camping. Mainly spent time looking at the moon. I also used them during the lunar eclipse last year/two years ago/three?(I really cant remember oops haha).
I have a few more questions now that I know the types of scopes that are out there.
1. Am I correct in saying that a reflector scope does relatively the same job as the refractor and dobsonian, just not up to the same standard?
2. Now that I know my max budget is £350, would a 6" reflector still be my best bet? or should I consider something bigger/smaller?
3. Can I still view things in the night sky if I stay in belfast? I live around the upper newtownards road area. I'm not in the city, but not exactly far away from it. I ask this because I cannot drive and would hate to be a bother to my parents every time I wanted to go out.
4. If I was to purchase a 6" reflector, what exactly would I be able to see? Is there an internet gallery I can go to? Could I have a few names of things I could type into google images to see what I could look at? (e.g. how much detail would I see in the moon and if any, what planets can I see cleary?)
5. Where are the best places to buy? I know of a few shops in belfast city that sell scopes, but I dont want to get ripped off. Shops or Internet stores? After reading around a few of the posts I see that you all seem to like first light optics.
I think thats all I'd need to know for now. I Hate to ramble on and bug all of you with my newby questions, but its good to know.
Once again, thanks for your help.
Graham.
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Post by mckinstry on Jan 7, 2009 23:32:07 GMT
Hi Graham
I recently bought the SKYLINER-200 8" Dobsonian and fingers crossed it arrives tomorrow or the next day.
I'm no expert but I'm guessing other than the moon and bright planets we won't see very much no matter how powerful the telescope - I'm on the Carnmoney Hill. EDIT - oops, only just read your part on observing Stevie, thanx for the info.
Eamonn, Killylane rings a bell. I think I went down there for a church service once. The church was out in the sticks and the sky totally took me by surprise, it was amazing! I could see so much more than back home. Light pollution is so bad us city dwellers rarely see the sky as it should be. I cannot wait to drive down there or somewhere like it.
Graham a good bet if your unsure would be to check out a public viewing session which I also plan to hopefully, never been before. need to learn this collimating business too.
Anyway good luck choosing a telescope! I'll let you know how mine works out.
Tim
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Post by stevie on Jan 8, 2009 1:30:05 GMT
Graham, first of all, your questions are good ones, so keep them coming, we are always glad to answer them. So, in order; 1. A dobsonian is a type of reflector, just on a simpler mount. They are available in similar sizes, 6", 8", 10" etc, although you can get dobsonians much bigger than that. You will pay more to get a reflector on an equatorial type mount, they are mainly used by people who may want to get into astrophotography. This is why it is often said that a dobsonian gives the most most "bangs per buck", ie best view for the least money. Refractors above about 4" in size can cost serious money, but do have many advantages, eg they do not need to be collimated, thay are fairly light and easy to handle. There is an article on the website by Andy which describes each type of scope and its advantages and disadvantages very well. www.eaas.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3:choosing-a-telescope-by-andrew-johnston&catid=5:learning-zone&Itemid=82. You could certainly consider an 8" dobsonian for that sort of money, or even a 10". An 8" skywatcher, as shown on the previous links, would leave you some money for other stuff like a red dot finder, another eyepiece etc. I would advise you to get an 8" dobsonian, without any extras except for the red dot finder (£25 from Andy McCrea) and a laser collimator (to line up the mirrors, Eamonn wll show you how to do it, he's a dab hand at it, he even does mine!), and see how you get on. There's nothing easier than spending money on stuff you don't need. 3 and 4. The Upper Newtownards Road area is not too bad compared to some places. It doesn't matter where you are or what type of scope you use, it will not be possible to see objects the same way as in photos on the internet or in books and magazines. Most of those are captured using long exposures or by layering multiple images on top of each other to build up the image. Your eyes cannot do that. However, you will be able to see fantastic detail on the moon, Saturn's rings and moons, features on Jupiter's surface plus it's moons, details on Mars when it is at it's best, coloured double stars, beautiful star clusters, some of the brighter galaxies and nebulae etc., enough to last several lifetimes. One major tip, if you get into the hobby, keep an observing logbook, it is really useful to record what you see. 5. There are many places to buy, although I would not go to anywhere in Belfast. One particular shop does sell telescopes, but they are quite expensive and have no back-up service, and do not sell any extra equipment like eyepieces. The two best sources are First Light Optics and Andy McCrea (North Down Telescopes) down in Bangor. Both will give you a superb service, with quick and reliable delivery and good back up service if required. Most of us have used both sources many times, and I think I would be correct in saying that I have never heard a bad word about either. As Tim advised, try and get along to an observing session, I think Eamonn may have given you his number. We are hoping to set up something in a couple of weeks, on a weekend near new moon (weather permitting of course). One of us will be happy to give you a lift. So keep an eye out on the forum, and keep posting your questions and comments.
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gmo
Cygnus
Posts: 5
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Post by gmo on Jan 11, 2009 13:43:11 GMT
Hello again!
I think I can safely say that ill be purchasing a scope now, thanks to stevie and nemesis for all your support, but I do have a few more questions.
1. Stevie, you have recommended a 8" or a 10" dobsonian, is there a paticular reason why? On one of Eamonns replies he says that dobsonians are best suited for clusters and galaxies, can I still view the moon and planets just as well with the dobsonian? I know you said it was just a reflector on a simpler mount, but i'd just like to be sure.
2. Speaking of mounts, I have seen that many dobsonians appear to come without a mount, which one is best for me? After watching some youtube videos i've seen that they talk about the various different mounts you can get. I saw one called a equatorial mount which looks like it would be really handy, but it also looks very expensive. I also saw other ones such as the "Go To" mount which again would be handy but very expensive. What do you think?
3. Lenses and eye pieces? Again after watching youtube videos, some people talk about the beauty of coloured lenses and upgrading from a 1.5" to a 2" eye piece which give you a more grander picture of the sky. Should I consider purchasing one?
That is all I can really think of about now. I'll be keeping an eye out on the forum for observing sessions I would really like to get out to one of those.
Anyway, hope you all are having a good weekend! Talk to you soon.
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Post by nemesis on Jan 11, 2009 17:34:19 GMT
Graham, you can see the Moon and planets with a Dob OK, it's just that looking for fainter objects is what they do best. A refractor might show the planets with better contrast and tease out more detail, but you'll still see them with a Dob....I'd some great views with mine this past couple of years. Dobs have their mounts supplied with them, but they're simple, hence the low price. Essentially you move them by hand. Equatorials and GOTO mounts (usually equatorial also) are very heavy and sturdy, but that's because they need to keep the image still and track it as the earth rotates in order to make photographing possible..you can't really do that with a Dob. If you intend to get into photographing, you'll need a GOTO or a driven equatorial mount. If you just want to look, a Dob is fine. If you get a Dob, at least one 2" eyepiece is a must, as you'll see some beautiful views with it...somewhere between 25mm and 35mm is ideal. However, a lot of common refractors and reflectors only take 1.25" eyepieces, so check that your intended buy can take a 2". A 2" capable scope will take both 2" and 1.25" eyepieces.
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Post by stevie on Jan 11, 2009 19:52:15 GMT
Graham, most people believe that a telescope magnifies objects. Well, it does, but it is better to think of a telescope as a device which makes faint objects brighter. There is a subtle difference here. Therefore, the bigger your lens, or mirror, the fainter the objects you will be able to see. The moon and major planets, and many stars and star clusters, are bright objects anyway, and can be seen in any telescope. But things like galaxies, nebulae, etc are faint, and need the most "brightening". The cheapest way to obtain this brightening is to use the biggest lens or mirror you can afford. And the cheapest way to get this is to buy a dobsonian telescope. And the best size for a beginner buying a dobsonian is either 8 or 10 inch. The reasons are; They will give great views of most objects They are reasonably priced They are fairly easy to handle and store They can be set up very quickly.
You can buy 6" dobsonians, or 4 or 5 inch reflectors on equatorial mounts, but you will soon become frustrated with them, as you will want to see more. Conversely, you could buy a 12 or 16 inch dobsonian, or an 8 or 10 inch reflector on an equatorial mount, but again, you could become frustrated with it. A 12 inch or bigger reflector is quite unwieldy, and really needs to be kept in one place. Eamonn and I both have Meade Lightbridges, these can be taken apart and transported, but they need to be collimated every time they are put together, and usually re-collimated after a couple of hours, which can also be frustrating.
As for eyepieces, as Eamonn has said, most telescopes use 1.25 inch eyepieces, and these are fine for most applications, and will work in all telescopes. However, to get the best experience from a reflector, most observers prefer 2 inch eyepieces. For high magnifications, 1.25 inch eyepieces are always used. But high magnifition is not the be-all and end-all. Many of the best objects in the sky require a low magnification to be seen at their best. In fact, if you consider an object like the Pleiades (aka M45 or The Seven Sisters), this is best seen in binoculars, as most telescopes have too small a field of view to show it all. So, for many of the best objects in the sky, a 2 inch eyepiece, which gives a fairly small magnification, but a nice wide field of view, is best. The combination of a big field of view and seeing an object nice and bright is the goal you should be aiming for. Go-to's, coloured filters, astrophotography and all that other stuff, can come later as you decide what particular aspects of the hobby, or which particular types of object are of most interest to you.
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Post by Phil on Jan 12, 2009 2:25:56 GMT
Maybe I should add this with respect to looking at the planets.... the only planets that are worth looking at through a telescope are Jupiter, Saturn and Mars when it is close, and of course the moon. Unfortunately you don't see much with the rest!
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gmo
Cygnus
Posts: 5
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Post by gmo on Jan 18, 2009 21:39:57 GMT
Hey everyone, sorry I havent been on much in a few days. I think I have a good idea on what scope to go for now, but I would just like to see what you all think before I go ahead and buy. Its a SKYLINER-250PX 254mm (10") f/1200 Parabolic Dobsonian (link below) www.pulsar-optical.co.uk/prod/telescopes/sky-watcher/dobsonians.htmlJust want to know if buying that alone, would be enough to get me going and should I buy anything else along side that. Also, is there any observing sessions coming up? I'm thinking it might also be a better idea for me to go to one of them first, but the weather here in NI isnt too nice at the moment. Boo weather! Hope to hear from you all soon!
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Post by irishbloke on Jan 18, 2009 22:25:00 GMT
Hi Graham,
I just got me one of those!! If you want to see one before you buy it is possible. I haven't got it out yet but it'll happen soon. Tim got the 8" one last week too so you could maybe get a look at both and choose from that. You will need a collimator for either which is £50, and the eyepeices that come with are okay but you'll want to change soon. That may mean the budget needs adjusting. The others will have more to say on that.
I don't know how this weeks weather is going to go. Its a shame as the the moon is not going to be a problem. I'll PM you my number and we may be able to arrange a get together sometime if you fancy a look at what you're thinking of buying.
Brian
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Post by mckinstry on Jan 19, 2009 0:37:25 GMT
Graham I am loving my new 8", its a jaw dropper to anyone who sees it. Got some (uncollimated) views of Saturn from Belfast and the sight was way better than what I had even expected.
I was advised to buy a laser collimator by Mia and a TAL 2x barlow lens by Stevie. Both from the First Light Optics website, arrived within a day or 2.
Question for the astro buffs - Is it true that an eyepiece, say a 10mm and a Barlow will give superior performance than just a single lens of the same combined magnification? Despite the reduced field of view or is the difference negligible? Just curious.
Anyway It would be great to get both the 8" and the 10" alongside each other and see those bad boys in action, see what the differances are.
Tim
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Post by NeilP on Jan 19, 2009 6:34:27 GMT
Hi Tim
A eyepiece barlow combination of say a 10mm eyepiece and 2X barlow would be the equivalent of a 5mm eyepiece of the same type as the 10mm, but the view will be slightly degraded by the extra lens element of the barlow. However with a good quality barlow, visually you would not really notice it.
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